Living an Artful Life: A Reflection on Dr. Maria Rosario Jackson’s Leadership
With Dr. Maria Rosario Jackson
In this podcast episode, GIA President & CEO Eddie Torres sat down with Dr. Maria Rosario Jackson, former Chair of the National Endowment for the Arts, to reflect on her transformative tenure. Recognized as one of the most impactful leaders in NEA history, Dr. Jackson discusses her visionary efforts to embed arts and culture into broader civic and governmental initiatives, from supporting Indian Country and Puerto Rico to advancing interagency collaborations on arts, health, and civic infrastructure. Join us as Dr. Jackson shares profound insights from her extensive career, celebrates the power of creativity to drive social change, and envisions a future where the arts continue to inspire, connect, and empower communities nationwide.
Recorded on January 14, 2025.
To listen to the full episode, click here.
Jaime Sharp:
Hello everyone, and welcome to a podcast by Grantmakers in the Arts, a national member association of private and public arts and culture funders. My name is Jaime Sharp and I'm the Program Manager here at GIA. I use she/they pronouns and I am located on the unceded territories of the Three Fire peoples, also known as Chicago, Illinois.
While this is an audio medium, I do want to take a moment and provide a visual description of myself. I am a light-skinned Black femme with shoulder-length, dark, curly, natural hair. Thank you so much for listening in today.
In this podcast episode, GIA President and CEO, Eddie Torres sat down with Dr. Maria Rosario Jackson, former Chair of The National Endowment for the Arts to reflect on her transformative tenure. Recognized as one of the most impactful leaders in NEA history, Dr. Jackson discusses her visionary efforts to embed arts and culture into broader civic and governmental initiatives, from supporting Indian country and Puerto Rico, to advancing inter-agency collaborations on arts, health, and civic infrastructure.
Join us as Dr. Jackson shares profound insights from her extensive career, celebrates the power of creativity to drive social change, and envisions a future where the arts continue to inspire, connect, and empower communities nationwide. I hope you enjoy.
Eddie Torres:
This is Eddie Torres, I'm President and CEO of Grantmakers in the Arts. I use we/us pronouns. I appear as a male, smaller frame, brown of skin. I have dark hair and eyes and a white beard. I'm wearing glasses and a black blazer. I'm coming to you from Lenapehoking, the unceded land of the Lenape, Munsee, and Wappinger peoples as well as other peoples.
I am so grateful to be here with Dr. Maria Rosario Jackson, the Chair of The National Endowment for the Arts. Dr. Jackson has held positions at Arizona State University, Herberger Institute for Design and the Arts at the Urban Institute. Has been an appointee of President Barack Obama, the National Council on the Arts, and a strategic advisor for the Kresge Foundation.
I am so excited to be able to talk with you, Maria. You know, as you wrap up your term as chair of The National Endowment for the Arts, we wanted to thank you on behalf of the national cultural community for your leadership. You have been one of the most consequential chairs in NEA history, embedding arts and culture across other agencies' work, lifting up areas that need greater attention and investment, like Puerto Rico and Indian country. And we just wanted to make a space for you to take a moment to reflect upon the themes within your work across the past four years and throughout your career.
Dr. Maria Rosario Jackson:
Sure. And Eddie, it's such an honor to be in conversation with you, and making the spaces is really a generous gesture as I wrap my time as chair of The National Endowment for the Arts. So as you said, I'm Maria Rosario Jackson. I've been chair of the NEA for about three years now, and pronouns are she and her.
The experience of being chair really has been animated by a set of ideas that I've held throughout my career, and in some ways they culminate in the expression of this concept of artful lives. And at the Arts Endowment, the mission is to ensure that all Americans have the opportunity to have access to the arts and arts education, and benefit from the arts.
And the concept of Artful Lives is a way to hold a really dynamic and important spectrum of activity that feeds us, that allows us to express our full humanity, to see the humanity of others, to transmit things that we think are important from one generation to the next, to ask hard questions, to imagine solutions, to work it out, right? To help us make sense of this world that we're here to steward, and our life experiences as they happen.
And I feel like when we have the opportunity to experience art, and when I say experience, I mean there's the default notion of participation as audience or consumer, and of course that's important. In addition to that, though, I've underscored the importance of artistic process, and artistic process for all of us. The capacity to be engaged in our creative spirits and ourselves. The ability to make, do, teach, learn, exchange.
And so this concept of Artful Lives is intentionally broad and inclusive, and it makes space for everyone to embrace their creative self and to appreciate the work of people, artists, and culture makers, heritage holders and culture bearers, people who have dedicated their lives to that, to experience what they have to offer and hold them in high regard, in addition to cultivating our own creative practices at whatever level.
So the notion of Artful Lives includes everything from attendance at a concert, to hear the sublime music of professional musicians and composers, as much as it does craft in the home, and the passing on of meaningful aesthetic traditions or the expression of that, which is what makes us community and family.
Eddie Torres:
That's beautiful, Maria. Thank you for that. And this leads me into the next topic that I wanted you to reflect on, which is how you've been working to reframe the criteria for the value of art. I mean, I think of this as having been so central, not just to your time at The National Endowment for the Arts, but when I worked for the City of New York and wrote a chapter of the city's long-term sustainability plan, I actually talked about how central culture is to community and specifically referenced your research out of Urban Institute. This was so important for our framing of the value of the arts. I wanted to give you a moment to reflect upon that.
Dr. Jackson:
Well, thank you, Eddie. It's always heartening when you can point to something that was put out in the world and somebody found it useful. So thank you for sharing that. I think that historically, particularly in policy and political environments, there's been a tendency to default to the economic value of the arts as the policy argument for why it's valuable.
And I get it, that that is the language of policy analysis. And surely, art's an important economic engine and there's no doubt or question or diminishing that. I also think that it's only part of the story, and that the arts are, they're critical to our well-being, to our health, to our democracy. They are so important and foundational for so many of the things that we say we aspire to as a nation of opportunity and justice.
And I think that without the intentional integration of arts and culture into our lives and the systems that we rely on to care for each other, we'll never realize that dream or that aspiration that we hold as a nation.
And I think of it as truly, a precondition for so many of the other things that we want to do. If we can't see each other's humanity, if we can't be whole people, if we don't have the ability to connect to one another, to be curious about each other, to have empathy, to ask questions, how can we actually execute on this idea of a democratic place where we care for each other?
And I think without recognizing the importance of the arts in our lives, we're stuck. And one of the things that we've done at the Arts Endowment over the last few years, and I always say we're not starting from scratch because the Arts Endowment has done such important work for decades.
I think in the last few years, we have really doubled down on an aspect of that work, which is lifting up the value of the arts and how central it is to a wide range of other areas of policy and practice, including economic development and impacts that have to do with the economy, but also looking at in very tangible ways, the intersections with health and wellness, civil society, social cohesion, all of these things. And I think we've made good progress in the time here, in the last few years in building up our ability to have viable, fruitful and impactful relationships with other parts of the federal family.
So whether it is the connection to the Department of Health and Human Services as they think about what it means to advance wellness, whether it's connection to the Surgeon General and his calls for action to address issues like loneliness and disconnection. And the ability to have, from the mouths of leaders in these areas that are not the arts, very earnest declarations of their support and understanding of why it matters for them, that's something that we've been able to do at a scale that hadn't happened before.
And I think that it is something that deserves to be cultivated and the momentum from it needs to be encouraged. Yeah, I think that's the thinking about this cross-agency, cross-sector work and the expansion of our understanding of the role of the arts in society to include economic impacts, but to look far beyond that and have a more holistic understanding of why this realm of work is so critical.
Eddie Torres:
Well, you know, to hear you thank me for finding your work useful is so funny to me because it's obviously not just me that's found it useful. I mean, it was central to the development of ArtPlace and its decade of demonstration of the role of the arts in community development, in safety, in health.
And to see you continue your influence, not just in the academy and not just in private philanthropy, but then to move it over into the inter-agency working group on arts, health and civic infrastructure, and to partner with The White House Domestic Policy Council on that amazing summit, Healing, Bridging and Thriving. And then the demonstration projects through arts, health and well-being, and seeing all of this investment in the role of the arts in health in Indiana, in Louisiana, in the The National Native American Boarding School Healing Coalition, in Oregon, in the South Bronx, in Minnesota. It's really amazing, I mean, the national level impact that your work is having.
Dr. Jackson:
Thank you. Thank you for that, Eddie. You know, as you were mentioning some of the investments, it makes me think about some of the travel that I was able to do, and have been able to do in this role. And we really, intentionally wanted to go to places that are often not in people's immediate awareness, places that are rich, not necessarily financially, but culturally, historically, and are often overlooked, underestimated.
And I think part of what I'm so proud of at the Arts Endowment during my tenure as chair, during my time as a council member prior to that and even before I had any kind of official relationship to the agency, I think part of what I'm proud of and what its value is, is that it is intended to reach everybody, and we do mean everybody. And taking the extra effort to understand the contexts in communities that may be different from where a lot of people live, and to go into those contexts with humility and an intention to learn is something that I've tried to instill and advance in the agency.
And I think that there is and has been good uptake, that there is a desire to make sure that we are connecting with everybody, with folks that live in communities that are remote, that may be somewhat isolated. Again, that may be overlooked or underestimated. And to show up with resources that recognizes that, not only are they deserving of art that comes from other places, but that there is cultural wealth in their being, in their communities, that they have something of value to make, and if they wish, to share with others.
Eddie Torres:
No, that's fantastic. And I'm reminded the NEA's investment in business incubators in tribal lands, specifically on Navajo and Hopi Nations through your collaboration with Change Labs and MASS Design Group. But it also reminds me, not just of your investment in places that have been underinvested for so long, but also the frame that you bring to artists, and the role of artists, and how you're helping us to all see artists differently, regard them differently and treat them differently. Could you reflect upon that for a moment?
Dr. Jackson:
Yeah. I think one of the things that we did at the Arts Endowment early in my tenure here was adapt the language and our guidelines to make sure that we were paying attention to not just the art product, but the artistic process. And that when we think about what constitutes an important investment, what has merit, what is excellent, that we are considering that process and the people who engage in that process at whatever level. And I think it was a way of shifting the gaze from just the product, or the thing that is delivered at the end of a process to recognize that there's value in the process in and of itself.
You know, so much of this we've learned through our investments that have to do with health and wellness where, for example, the work that we've done with the military and some of the pilot programs that you mentioned, which are much more recent. When you talk to people about why it matters, it isn't so much about the thing that resulted at the end, but it is about the engagement in the creative process, right? The discovery of one's ability to be a creator, and the importance of that, whether it is connected to claiming agency or to healthy expression. The idea that one can make something, can advance through imagination, and the ability to bring something into being that, that has value, right?
So there's definitely an interest in lifting that up and finding out the ways that we can do that through the mechanisms that we have available to us. I think we've also, in the last few years created stronger relationships, for example, with the Department of Labor, where we are in conversation with them, to help them better understand what artists need as workers. What it means to compensate fairly, and being vigilant in our own practices about when artists are involved in a project or an initiative, that we are mindful that we are walking our talk in terms of making sure that they're paid adequately, that their provisions, that what they require to do their work is something that we're attending to appropriately with respect.
So I'm really proud that despite not always having complete freedom, because there are lots of rules in federal government and sometimes for good reasons, but within the confines of what we have available to us, to push the envelope and make sure that we are being good stewards of the kinds of resources that help the people that bring art into the world in important ways, that we are behind them.
Eddie Torres:
Well, you know, I remember we were speaking earlier and you'd mentioned a colleague who was developing a cultural policy curriculum for Harvard University and said to you, "I've been reading articles that you wrote 20 years ago." And it's so exciting to see that work become manifest in this way. I'm also really excited about the future. I mean, you've had a great influence on the larger federal government and how they regard art and artists. And I'd love for you to reflect upon what you imagine is the future of this work, moving forward.
Dr. Jackson:
Yeah, that's such a ... It's a happy question, right? It's a happy question because I think that there are answers to it that are full of opportunity and possibility. I've often said that the pathways that we have paved well as a society for artists are too few and too narrow. And I hope that as people have a more holistic understanding of the different ways that the arts benefit them and are important to everyday life, that we also use our imagination to make sure that the ways that we're able to access the arts are available in a manner that we may not even imagine right now, and that helps to create a range of opportunities for artists and arts organizations, to assert and contribute if they wish to.
One time, a few years ago, I was at a conference and a student asked me, "What would be evidence of success if the things that you care about and are working on are coming to fruition?" And one answer, I think related to what you're bringing up is that as a society, we have so many more opportunities for artists to deliver what they have to offer to the world, and not just make a living but thrive. And that we have so many more opportunities for people to have robust, creative lives.
And I'm not sure what that full picture looks like yet, but I think we've been making strides in the last few years as we create opportunities for artists to work in transportation, to work in social welfare, to work alongside healers and doctors, to show up in places where you may not necessarily, initially imagine that an artist would be, but when they are there and you understand what they have to offer, you recognize that whatever that was at its best requires imagination and creativity.
Eddie Torres:
You know, it is a happy question in that, I'm very optimistic on the continuation of this work in a number of ways, but two of them that come to mind for me is, you have a entire federal government full of career civil servants who have been touched by your influence now, and who see the value of art and artists through their work, and they'll remain.
Plus you have a whole administration that was specific to this presidency, but who now will go out into the world having been touched by your influence, and bringing with them their awareness of the value of the arts and artists into their fields. And so that's a two-fold impact that you've had beyond simply the agency.
Dr. Jackson:
You know, I'm happy to think of it in the way you just described because I think it creates a landscape of opportunity that we don't fully understand it yet, but there will be a different landscape of opportunity that is influenced by precisely what you just described.
And that's exciting, the imagination around what's possible when you have people who can come together because there has been more deep exposure to the richness that can be available when you work with arts organizations or artists. Yeah, to think about what could happen, it's very exciting, actually. It makes me optimistic.
Eddie Torres:
Me too. Now let me ask you, before we wrap up, I just want to check in if there's anything that you want to make sure you share with our national audience that I haven't asked you yet, that you're particularly proud of, you're particularly excited about?
Dr. Jackson:
I think we've touched on a lot of it. Maybe one thing, Eddie, is I have always thought about The National Endowment for the Arts in a way where definitely, what it does as a funder and in the distribution of resources through grants and other programs that, that is without question an important role that it plays.
I think that in the last few years, I've also encouraged the organization to look at the other assets that it has available to it, to deploy in service submission. And some of those other assets have to do with our ability to create partnerships with other parts of the federal government, to be good partners with state and regional arts organizations, local arts agencies, and to strengthen those relationships in ways that we are rowing in the same direction and can be more impactful because we are mutually informed.
I think that the research that comes out of the Arts Endowment or is commissioned by the Arts Endowment is an incredibly important resource to the field. Our ability to convene and catalyze, to create a platform for important topics, ideas, and questions to be discussed with the intention of it being a national conversation, these are all things that the Arts Endowment can and has done. And I hope that that continues because I really believe that we meet mission when we marshal all of our resources in that direction. And not only the grant resources, but the other things that we have available to us as a federal agency. So I think I would want to register that.
I also want to lift up the role of a national public funder, the role that it plays, not in isolation from others, but in conversation with, and that's something else that I've tried to advance. Encouraging directors to be out in the field, and listen, and learn, and to be in communication with other funders, and to make sure that we're working and investing in a way that is at least aware of what others are doing, and informed about the diverse contexts that we need to be accountable to.
So I think those two things that just maybe want to underscore in terms of organizational evolution. I hope that the idea of Artful Lives continues to have momentum and that it becomes aspirational. That people seek out to build communities that are rich because there's art there, because there are creators there, because there are people who care and want to connect and aren't afraid to ask questions or use their imagination.
Eddie Torres:
Well Maria, you have always been a great leader in our national cultural community and you have been one of the most consequential chairs The National Endowment for the Arts has ever had. We are so privileged that we got to spend this time with you and we are so looking forward to remaining in dialogue with you. Thank you so much for being a part of this conversation with us.
Dr. Jackson:
Thank you, Eddie. It's been a real gift to be able to talk with you and have this conversation, and thank you for what you do.
Jaime Sharp:
Thank you for listening to the Grantmakers in the Arts Podcast. If you have any feedback about today's episode or the podcast in general, please contact me at jaime@giarts.org. That's Jaime, J-A-I-M-E@G-I-A-R-T-S.org or visit our website, www.giarts.org. Be sure to check out the other episodes of our podcast on reader.giarts.org and find us on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram at Grantmakers in the Arts. Thank you again, for listening.
ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
For more than 25 years, Maria Rosario Jackson’s work has focused on understanding and elevating arts, culture, and design as critical elements of healthy communities. Her work blends social science and arts- and humanities-based approaches to comprehensive community revitalization, systems change, the dynamics of race and ethnicity, and the roles of arts and culture in communities. After confirmation by the U.S. Senate in December 2021, Chair Jackson became the 13th chair of the National Endowment for the Arts in January 2022. With this historic appointment, Chair Jackson is the first African American and the first Mexican American woman to serve as chair of the NEA.
Chair Jackson has a long career in strategic planning, policy research, and evaluation with philanthropy, government, and nonprofit organizations. She has served as an advisor on philanthropic programs and investments at national, regional, and local foundations.
Chair Jackson is currently on leave from Arizona State University, where she is a tenured Institute Professor in the Herberger Institute for Design and the Arts. In that role, she has led the Studio for Creativity, Place and Equitable Communities and held an appointment in the Watts College of Public Service and Community Solutions (2017-2022). For almost ten years, she also served as a senior advisor for Arts and Culture and Strategic Learning, Research and Evaluation at the Kresge Foundation.
For 18 years, Chair Jackson worked at the Urban Institute, a Washington, DC-based national public policy research organization. While there, she was a senior research associate in the Metropolitan Housing and Communities Policy Center, and the founding director of the Urban Institute’s Culture, Creativity and Communities Program.
She was appointed to the National Council on the Arts by President Barack Obama in 2012, on which she served until becoming chair of the NEA. She was co-chair of the County of Los Angeles Cultural Equity and Inclusion Initiative and, most recently, served on the advisory boards of the Smithsonian Center for Folklife and Cultural Heritage, the Equity Center at the University of Virginia, the Strong, Prosperous and Resilient Communities Challenge (SPARCC), and L.A. Commons, an arts intermediary organization focused on bridging communities through stories and creative practice. Chair Jackson served on the board of directors of the Performing Arts Center of Los Angeles County (The Music Center), the Association of Arts Administration Educators, and the Alliance for California Traditional Arts.
A graduate of the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA) with a doctorate in urban planning, Chair Jackson holds a master of public administration degree from the University of Southern California. Chair Jackson grew up in South Los Angeles, and spent time in her father’s home state of Ohio and her mother’s hometown of Mexico City. She is a member of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc.
